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comilvouplaira membre régulier
Inscrit le: 29 Jan 2011
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Posté le: 08 Fév 2011, 18:46 Sujet du message: |
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Effacé en concertation avec Toni.
Dernière édition par comilvouplaira le 09 Fév 2011, 01:03; édité 4 fois |
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baz74leman membre régulier
Inscrit le: 14 Mar 2005
Localisation: La Roche Sur Foron ( 74 )
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Posté le: 08 Fév 2011, 18:46 Sujet du message: |
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Bonsoir Fred.
Et oui le parasite et la vermine que je suis te suis complétement dans ta conclusion. Pourquoi laisser ce "garçon" diffamer sur quasiment tous les membres en les menaçant via MP (preuves à l'appui) dans ces délires qui n'amènent au final toujours à rien. Merci à l'administration de prendre des mesures contre ce membre que je qualifierais de troll..
amicalement baz _________________
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comilvouplaira membre régulier
Inscrit le: 29 Jan 2011
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Posté le: 08 Fév 2011, 18:50 Sujet du message: |
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Effacé en concertation avec Toni.
Dernière édition par comilvouplaira le 09 Fév 2011, 01:03; édité 1 fois |
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baz74leman membre régulier
Inscrit le: 14 Mar 2005
Localisation: La Roche Sur Foron ( 74 )
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Posté le: 08 Fév 2011, 18:55 Sujet du message: |
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comilvouplaira a écrit: |
Ce sera là mon dernier "post" sur ce sujet de l'alimentation (non pas celle des rats, mais celle des Achrioptera). |
_________________
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comilvouplaira membre régulier
Inscrit le: 29 Jan 2011
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Posté le: 08 Fév 2011, 19:04 Sujet du message: |
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Effacé en concertation avec Toni.
Dernière édition par comilvouplaira le 09 Fév 2011, 01:04; édité 1 fois |
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acanthus membre régulier
Inscrit le: 12 Nov 2005
Localisation: LILLE
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Posté le: 08 Fév 2011, 19:28 Sujet du message: |
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comilvouplaira a écrit: | acanthus a écrit: | bonjour à tous
cher Olivier je ne suis pas intervenu sachant comment tout cela aller se terminer.... En effet, pas d'inquiétude, car un de tes amis s'en est chargé à ta place...alors merci de ne pas me meler à ça Merci de ne pas me donner d'ordres petit merdeux.
pour info j'ai signaler à plusieurs reprises les agissements de ce personnage que vous, administrateurs et modérateurs, continuez à accueillir sur les forums dès qu'il se présente soit avec des belles photos soit avec des sujets interessants pendant un post ou 2... avant que des foutteurs de merde de ton espèce se la ramènent pour polluer le sujet.
voilà comment ça se termine à chaque fois !!!!...
à bon entendeur...qui t'emmerde !
cdt
Fred |
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moi je trouvais juste le sujet interessant meme si bien sur je n'étais pas d'accord avec les conclusions de mr SALORD
j'en aurai plutot conclu que mr SALORD parvient à faire dégénérer en qques mois une espèce vieille de plusieurs milliers d'années, comme quoi les phasmes s'adaptent à leur éleveur.... lol trop forts les phasmes (enfin pas de bol pour ceux qui vivent chez mr SALORD !!!! mdr)
oh je déconne Olivier un peu d'humour !!!!
si les phasmes pouvaient vraiment s'adapter à leur éleveur chez toi ils se suicideraient tellement tu es con !!!!! (oui Yannick je prends la porte !!!! lol)
Fred |
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gopala membre régulier
Inscrit le: 26 Fév 2005
Localisation: Suisse (Lucerne)
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Posté le: 08 Fév 2011, 19:30 Sujet du message: |
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Please excuse me for writing in english, but my french is very weak. And using Google translations can lead to very funny texts......
It seems to me that there is a problematic relationship between some of the people contributing to this thread. I do not know the background of this, and I do not want to know it. But I have to admit that I do feel very uneasy if people misuse my name to beat each others heads. So I ask all of you, please sort this out amongst yourself - this is not my fight, and I do not want to be drawn into this.
I am a peaceful person - usually :)
To be of different opinions is a good thing, at least sometimes. But we should always be aware that with our tiny, tiny brain we can never fully understand reality. Especially as many aspects of reality are perceived with a very personal view. And (I dare to say this is even more important) we should always consider that we might have misunderstood the other persons point of view (when we are in disagreement) - for what ever reasons.
A. fallax - I do not know (or let's say that I do not remember) from how many females the eggs were collected which formed the basis of the present culture. The one who collected this species on Mt. de Francais (near Diego-Suarez) is not my friend Oskar Conle. That was Frank Glaw (a new genus of phasmids from Madagascar has been named after him). I could ask Frank, but this does not really seem to be a very relevant information to me. Even if the eggs would have been collected from from many different females, then after 1-2 generations in captivity that gen pool would be rather small again. Why? Because most of us do anyway not keep more than 2-3 adulte females of such big species.
Of course one could try to keep 40 - 50 pairs (then we could really speak of a somewhat healthy size for a gen pool), but who would do this?
Inbreeding - I am quite certain that there is no one around who does have accurate scientific knowledge about the effect (especially longterm) of inbreeding in phasmids. It is all more or less wild guessing - which is OK, I am doing it myself :) And so far, from what I have read about other insects, inbreeding seems generally not to be a big issue for insects. But of course that does not mean that inbreeding might not cause grave genetic detoriation.
Like everyone I do have my opinion about this subject. I think inbreeding might have some negative impact. And this is something we can not escape, as it is not possible to introduce "new blood" for most of the species we are breeding (at least not on a regular basis). But personally I am shure that the main reason, why we have difficulties to breed species like Achrioptera, is because we fail to offer them the right microclimatic factors and food they need (light, humidity, temperatures, rainy and/or drought seasons, seasonal changes ect. ect.)
If someone can get (for species which are already in culture) eggs from wildcaught specimens, then that seems to be a good thing.
A. spinosissima - I did have eggs of this species (from Morondava), but they did not hatch. But that is why that species was listed in the Phasma breeding list. If all goes well I will get more eggs in a few weeks. A friend of mine had once an adult female of this species (unfortunately from parthenogenetic eggs), and that was truely the most beautiful phasmid I have ever seen...
A.p.p. and A.p.c. - so far my experience is that A.p.c. is more difficult in culture. But I do not know why, as I keep both the same way. And they are (most probably) a very similar environement
amicalement
Bruno |
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comilvouplaira membre régulier
Inscrit le: 29 Jan 2011
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Posté le: 08 Fév 2011, 20:49 Sujet du message: |
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Bonsoir Bruno,
Thanks a lot for your brilliant contribution to this post and most of all for bringing back a feeling of peace and serenity to the forum.
As far as inbreeding is concerned, I do not quite share your opinion, especially when you state that even if more A.fallax ova had been imported from many wild-caught females, it would nonetheless have been impossible to keep such a wide genetic pool in culture, as indeed, even if, as you cleverly put forth, by vertue of the females' very large size, keeping more than 2 or 3 adult specimens is not an easy thing, on the other hand, giving away a lot of ova or live specimens to as many breeders as possible would make it easier to preserve the original genetic pool in its full variety. In other words, spreading the bloodline and thereby disseminating the genes is always possible in a phasmids culture, as long as a given species is kept and bred by as many breeders as possible, hence the importance of circulating a new species as much as can be.
Amicalement,
Olivier
Dernière édition par comilvouplaira le 08 Fév 2011, 21:53; édité 6 fois |
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comilvouplaira membre régulier
Inscrit le: 29 Jan 2011
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Posté le: 08 Fév 2011, 21:04 Sujet du message: |
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Effacé car doublon par rapport au précédent message. |
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tit'brindille nouveau membre
Inscrit le: 14 Avr 2010
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Posté le: 08 Fév 2011, 22:02 Sujet du message: |
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Bonsoir,
Le sujet présenté, bien que fortement dérivé de l'idée originale, est très intéressant. Je suis bien déçu toutefois que les propos en viennent aux insultes. Les photos sont superbes Edenmantis ou Commeilvousplaira, comme d'habitude, alors pourquoi tout gâcher ?
Il est probable que la génétique soit pour partie dans la dégénérescence de certaines souches de phasmes bien que rien ne soit avéré. Après tout, les espèces animales sont soumises aux mêmes lois, en théorie.
Toutefois, beaucoup de choses reste à découvrir, pourquoi ne pas avancer ensemble ?
Cordialement,
Brindilles |
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Toni animateur
Inscrit le: 23 Avr 2005
Localisation: Annecy
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Posté le: 08 Fév 2011, 22:08 Sujet du message: |
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Salut,
It's damage and ridiculous that you see our child quarell.
Sorry to have you involved in spite of yourself in this story, I hope there is no misunderstanding, we all have got respect for you.
Citation: | Thanks a lot for your brilliant contribution to this post and most of all for bringing back a feeling of peace and serenity to the forum. |
I agree in spite of myself...
Citation: | And so far, from what I have read about other insects, inbreeding seems generally not to be a big issue for insects. But of course that does not mean that inbreeding might not cause grave genetic detoriation.
Like everyone I do have my opinion about this subject. But personally I am shure that the main reason, why we have difficulties to breed species like Achrioptera, is because we fail to offer them the right microclimatic factors and food they need (light, humidity, temperatures, rainy and/or drought seasons, seasonal changes ect. ect.)
If someone can get (for species which are already in culture) eggs from wildcaught specimens, then that seems to be a good thing. |
I think too, maybe we 'll can to be sure later.
Concerning the Achrioptera punctipes punctipes, you know Daniel Weber ?
Normally, He has got this sub-specie. I don't know if still has got but his form was given for a french, Nicolas Hausherr.
I don't know if it's useful but I 'm able to find the geographical origin.
If you want, I will say.
@micalement
Toni |
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comilvouplaira membre régulier
Inscrit le: 29 Jan 2011
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Posté le: 08 Fév 2011, 22:36 Sujet du message: |
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Effacé car hors-sujet.
Dernière édition par comilvouplaira le 10 Fév 2011, 07:37; édité 1 fois |
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Toni animateur
Inscrit le: 23 Avr 2005
Localisation: Annecy
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Posté le: 08 Fév 2011, 22:54 Sujet du message: |
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Salut,
it's strange what you say. I exchange with Daniel in April 2009, he send me 50 eggs of Achrioptera fallax (against T.childrenii) and no problem.
I had got nymphs.
For the Achrioptera punctipes punctipes, I am sure, he (Nicolas Hausherr alias McFly) gave him in person.
He was afraid to losing.
http://lemondedesphasmes.free.fr/php/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3282
I think Daniel Weber is someone you trust.
I am sent e-mail to Daniel for the A.p.p.
After, there always is the possibility that the postage has got lost.
Regards
Toni |
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comilvouplaira membre régulier
Inscrit le: 29 Jan 2011
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Posté le: 09 Fév 2011, 00:34 Sujet du message: |
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Effacé car hors-sujet.
Dernière édition par comilvouplaira le 10 Fév 2011, 07:38; édité 3 fois |
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comilvouplaira membre régulier
Inscrit le: 29 Jan 2011
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Posté le: 09 Fév 2011, 01:05 Sujet du message: |
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Effacé en concertation avec Toni car hors-sujet. |
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